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 Guild as I see it

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Join date : 2009-04-09

PostSubject: Guild as I see it   Mon May 25, 2009 5:50 pm

I'm sorry to say that guildies, but I'm really not happy with the way our guild is, lately. I think the time has come to discuss it openly with everybody who cares and to do something. Or not to do anything at all if it's only me who sees a problem Smile

So, this post is gonna be quite long. Dont read it if you don't care and just wanna have a lil fun playing the game. You can stop right here, you are not gonna find any fun in this post. For the rest of you I will tell, in this order, what concerns me (nobody really cares), who's to blame (da most important! Very Happy) and what to do (optional). I'm saying all this with only the best intentions in mind, because I'd like to see those points addressed and improved to make the guild better.

Chapter 1: What concerns me.

To put it simply, we are not a true guild. We are a bunch of random people who happened to be on the same chat and who even helps each other a little, time to time (omg!). We lack any organization, any goals, anything in common, anything that would tie us together. New members probably haven't noticed this yet. but most of old members sure have.

Symptoms, to list only a few. (content warning: this is not gonna be nice).

Yesterday Scandal said we have a 100+ etin and everybody went hooray!. This was about two weeks after we "really" started collecting etin. To tell you the truth, 100 etin is a fucking joke. I alone can solo 100 etin in one day. Any guildie could get like 15 etin every day not even trying very hard. With these rates (100 etin per two weeks) we are not going to have Guild House, ever. There's nothing to be hoorray about, we shoulda been sad, as in funeral. Whats even more important, today I learned that one guildie (no names here!) is selling etin for money. Now, that's it, here we are. It's a perfect example how "organized" our guild is. Some people tries hard to get etin for everybody while some other sells etin for their own personal profit. Unity? Gotta be kidding. We "started" collecting Etin some weeks ago and by now some of us do not even know that.

Next. As I said, rotation is too fucking fast. People are leaving the guild. Not some random kids who join one day and leave the next day. Those are the people who have been with us very long. Some of them - since the start. Genie, Dallas, Jerry - where are they? Do you even know that they left? Do you know why? Anybody at least cares why? Is this a united guild? Also, people join every day. I see new names every day at least. They do not even bother to introduce themselves. Every time I need to ask is this a new person or someone's another toon. When I joined the guild as a newbie I actually knew more guildies than I do now. I almost starting feel like a stranger here.

Next. Another perfect example of how unite our guild is, is that one certain guildie had to level alone for weeks. We started our hm toons almost at the same time, now I'm like twenty levels ahead. And I am talking not about some newcommer, I talk about a member who has been with us since very long. Longer than me anyway. Is it that hard to plvl someone or just nobody cares? (hint: nobody cares).

Next. We actually have sort of PvP team. What support do they get from guild? (hint: none at all or close to it). Yesterday one certain guildie (no names here!) asked us for lvl 4 or 5 lapis for his PvP toon. 5 is quite expensive, OK, but lvl 4 is a fucking joke - for real guild anyway. Just the cost of legendary lapised armor is equal to app. 200 lvl 4 lapis. Two hundred, thats right. Enough to link every piece of one's 1-15 pvp armor, weapon and decorate room's walls.

I could go on and on but the post is quite long already so I'm going to stop here. I will address more things in "what to do" chapter.0+

Chapter 2: Who's to blame

Everybody, really. And nobody at the same time. How so?

Everybody: lets start with me. I promissed to take care of PvP team and I failed badly. Just got too hungry for levels and money. Wanted to make my ubertoon for 1-15 asap. Didnt care much about team for PvP anymore. When guildies were asking to come someone to 1-15 I have been busy with leveling my toon to 50+ to farm those shiny duals. I didnt organize it properly. Same stays for many old guild members. We all got too hungry for levels and gold. Cared too much about ourselves and left other guildies to care about themselves too. Many of them did: they left the guild, formally or just de facto. Random help with items or plvl doesnt count.

Nobody: as I said, rotation is too fast. Sorry I'm not spending 50+ millions on gear for someone who's gonna kiss the guild goodbye the very next day. For now I'm helping only the guildies whom I do trust and whom I know for quite long time and who does contribute to guild too. Sorry, newcommers. I hope it will change (read the next chapter on suggestions). And in order to be able to do something, we really need high lvl hm+ toons. We need to farm Jungle, Deep Desert and Stigma Cave. We need to be able to farm Loca, Ajuha and some other bosses. There's quite a point to rushing our toons up.

Chapter 3: What to do?

Yeah the part you have been waiting for! Yes, I can be not only negative too! (Wow!). These are just my generic suggestions (details still must be worked up) and only provided that you agree with criticism above. If you dont consider it a problem, no solution is needed either, so you can stop reading right here.

* Everybody must contribute to guild, period. Since the very joining day. The only exception is people who dont play seriously (e.g. daily). How to contribute? Everyone must pay some fee in Etin or gold or certain items, whatever. Also, everybody must take a responsibility and/or participate in something: farming gold/items/lapis, PvP'ing & GRB, plvl'ing others, recruiting people and mentoring them, collecting etin, you name it. Why: this has a number of positive effects. When you contribute to guild you are not so fast to leave it. Or, you can leave imediatelly if contributing is not your idea of fun, if you like only benefiting Wink Also, guild needs some nice budget to finance everything I list below Wink

* Rewarding PvP'ers. Everyone who does it on a daily basis must be rewarded, period. Details can be worked up. I would suggest financing good PvP gear for anybody who gets his kills up to three bars, thus proving he's really into it. A number of other factors must be considered too, like how long the person is in the guild, how rich is he, etc.

* We need real officers who do their job, period. At least one person responsible for each of the following: PvP & GRB, Farming & Finances, Recruiting & Mentoring, Power Leveling, War in Iraq. Wait, no need for war in Iraq, thats not our job. Our leader (no names here!) is doing good but he is just one person, he cannot be responsible for everything, thats just too much for one person to manage.

* We need to actually choose who are we accepting into guild. We need to ask at least some few simple questions about the person, like how long is he playing, why does he wanna join and what is he expecting from the guild, what are his goals in game, etc. <---- if the person is a stranger; OR ----> the person must be some other guildies friend/relative/etc. This way we will avoid (to a certain extent) accepting people who just wanna abuse the guild and leave it (no names here) or who are just plain jerks (no names here).

* Any relevant info must be posted on forums and everybody must read the forums, period. So that everybody will know not to sell Etin, when to come to GRB, what items to save, what to do and how benefit from it. Not knowing is not an excuse anymore.

* Rewarding members in general, whatever their job might be, for their actual contribution. Everyone can contribute and everyone can be rewarded. If you are lvl 10 easy mode, you still can bring Gold Apples and get a free dual lapis for that (Woot??!! OMG!). Details might (read: must) be worked up.

* Having more guild events more often. Everybody was excited when we went to Fedion in a Union, owned and farmed entire dungeon and pawned Ajuha as a grand finale. Why can't we have smth like this more often? Fedions evening, Clorons evening, Maitreyans morning, Lapis farming evening, Etin farming morning, PvP midday, guilds duels, you name it. Those events are not gonna be must-attend but just an excuse to hang with guildies and have some fun for those who wants.

Chapter 4: Epilogue

Those were my thoughts. Thats just my personal opinion and view on how the guild should be organized. You can have different opinion and views. There might be any number of different ways to have a guild. A bunch of random people who only chat in the same place is a perfectly fine guild also, just not the one I like. You might like it. Feel free to express your feelings. I didnt want to offend anybody nor do I want to force my views upon anybody. This thread is meant for discussion (and improving the guild if you see it neccessary as I do).

Also this was written with pro players in mind, e.g. those who play daily or close to it. If you play once per week, relax, you are not gonna be asked to contribute anything, really. Have fun with the game and nice to chat with you once per week!

Suggestions here are by no means final, they are open to debate and you can also add your own too.

Thanks for reading !
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Mon May 25, 2009 7:12 pm

My post will be rather short in comparison as I'll be hitting on only a few topics.

The first is what you mentioned in Etin. You're right, 100 is a joke, but at least it's a start. Now, to give a little back to you here, if 100 is easily farmed in a day, where is your contribution? I'm playing devils advocate here (both sides of the field in case anyone doesn't know what that means) I'm not trying to be mean, just saying. Before you put down what we have, look at what you've given. Ann has been immensely helpful in supplying etin, also LeeLou has helped out and I believe that Vothe has some that I haven't had a chance to pick up. I also know that I haven't contributed much to the supply and I apologize to everyone for that. I should help more. However, two factors contribute to why I haven't. The first is that my personal life has taken a rather sharp turn for the crappy side. So when I do get on to play, I'm not excited about farming. The second, is that sometimes I'm in high demand. There are times when I get on and my chat box is flooded with "We need you in CL3, D-Water, Jungle, Desert (ect) now!" and as you said, we need high level toons in the guild. I'm slowly pushing for lvl 60 with Scandal, but it's taking a while.

As for the people who have left. Dallas left for reasons that I do know, but haven't had the tools to do anything about (yet). Jerry is still with us, but like myself, he has some things going on that are keeping him from playing as often. That's all I'll say about that.

Genie. Oh, I'm not gonna lie, I'm glad she left. She was a good guildie, but she had personal problems with me. Like the fact that I wasn't attracted to her. She left because I wouldn't promote her to officer. I wouldn't promote her to officer because of her temper. She let it get out of hand right after we formed the guild and went off on a member of another guild. It's a long story, but in the end she left because of me. I've seen a few names disappear from the list as well, and I'm sure it's because she's been flaming the guild behind our backs.

Nadia left because she made her own guild, Fate_Of_Light, she still has toons with us, and assured us that it was just because she wanted to make a guild with a close friend of hers.

As for the issues with our "Unity" We're pretty damn unite if you ask me. I have a toon in the_Enlightenment, as to take advantage of thier guild house until we get our own, and possibly take advantage of thier members. I asked them a simple question a few days ago. I had to ask 6 times before someone finally gave me a halfassed answer. Also, they have hundreds of players, and at least 50 on at a time. We're a small guild, its going to be harder for us to compete with a guild that size.

As for your suggestions, I like a few of them, others need some work.

I like getting to know new guildies, the idea of asking them questions is good, however, who gets to ask the questions? and who decides that the answer is a good one?

Getting items from guildies is a good idea, such as etin, eap, ect. But how do we get it all in one place? Until we have a guild house I'm the only one with room to store it. Don't get me wrong, I'll store it more than gladly, I have an entire space in my warehouse just for guild supplys. But I'm not on all the time, so we need some way to get all of these items to me in the end.

Rewarding PVP: I agree, there should be some way to reward the pvp teams, or support them. I have decent luck with lapis, so for that I offer (from here on) to lapis items for free. Just bring me the lapis and the armor and I'll absorb the linking fee. Eventually I may even have some high level lapis to contribute, but as of the moment, It's hard for me to get the lapis that even I need to put in my gear. On the other side though, I don't believe that we should only help those who have a high rank. After all, I spent almost a month in 1-15 with scan, and only got 1 bar. This is because I suck at pvp, doesn't mean I didn't try though.

I like the idea of guild events, but in order to do that, we'll need better communication. As I've been saying (on and off for a while now) we need to promote the forums better. I noticed Vothe saying something to the guild about it the other day, and it was quite blunt "Hey Yall! Guess what! We have a forum!" I like that.

This will be my finish, and a personal note. I am the Guild Leader. If anyone sees something going on that isn't being conducted in a "Guildie" manner. Eg: you mentioned someone selling Etin, then I should be told. I check the forums every day, drop me a PM, screenshots and proof are greatly appreciated. Ok, that's really all I think I need to say for now.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Mon May 25, 2009 7:32 pm

Quote :

Now, to give a little back to you here, if 100 is easily farmed in a day, where is your contribution?
As I said, everybody's to blame and I'm no exception, even more, as an old member I'm to blame even more. But I'm trying to improve everything. And my suggestion wasnt that you should help more, on a contrary, I suggested that everybody would contribute more so you need to contribute less.

As for people who left, it's not the reasons they left concerns me more, but the fact that nobody cares. OK you do care I believe and so do I. Maybe one or two persons more. Nobody else.

Quote :

however, who gets to ask the questions? and who decides that the answer is a good one?
An officer responsible for recruiting. He can also consult other members if he likes. Or you for that matter. Anyone. I'm happy as long as we dont just accept anybody.

Quote :

Eg: you mentioned someone selling Etin, then I should be told.
I dont see any need. That person just didnt know we need etin. I told him. He is not gonna sell anymore. Thats it. The problem I tried to point to is not that he was selling etin, but that he didnt know we need etin at the first place.

Thanks for your opinion and your point of view on things anyway. It's nice to know what other people thinks about the guild and how they see the guilds organization. Especially da leader Wink As I said, that was just my opinion. If nobody else agrees with me, no changes are needed.

Last edited by Hastur on Mon May 25, 2009 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Mon May 25, 2009 7:50 pm

I was selling Etins...tell it Limp..its not a secret...
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Mon May 25, 2009 8:00 pm

LordZikarion wrote:
I was selling Etins...tell it Limp..its not a secret...

That's besides the point. If we are going to discuss who was selling etin and omg how could he do that, that means I failed to express my point.

Quote :

I've seen a few names disappear from the list as well, and I'm sure it's because she's been flaming the guild behind our backs.

Thats a very serious accusation, and Genie is not here to defend herself. I'm sure you have any proof of this?
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Tue May 26, 2009 4:57 am

I Completly Agree On All The Topic Linas Has Stated in thiss Post
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Tue May 26, 2009 10:07 am

Hi everyone

i read what linas ,and others said about our guild and i have to say that they have some points on theyr speeach

As an officer of the guild that allen made me i try to help us with many ways
eg when i see in my waiting list someone firstly i ask the guild members if enyone nows the applyer cause we heve diferent toons all of us.

sometimes they answer me somtimes no so i have to guess what is going on!!

if i accept someone then i wait to see if he is on and try to find by the guild chat who is this gye or girl.
I try to play with him her olso as soon i can to see by myself how he she mooves in the guild.
There are people that dont even say hi and they are online!!!! that sucs i think and even never meet or party with people that are online but they wana play only with specific guilters!!!! and they are new on the guild. I dont say that they should party always with an officer but what i see is that they dont even wana talk .

Sometimes i come accross with some fellow guildies and they dont even stop to say hi.
I see that always partying with people from other guilds never ours !!!
I try to help by giving away lapis armor and so i keep asking to the guilders and noone responds!!
I dont want money or anyhting else just to help, and i dont say that cause i am writing this apply .
Everyone who has played with me i think that he cant say that i am not helpfull
But i will kick someone out if that continiues. I cant imagine a guild without the people that are on neven talk or respond to others peoples questions or greetings
As for the help to the guild (etins eap and so) i aggre that we should gahter and keep so that when we have a guild house must be ready. But i dont see in the guild chat a lot of people saying i gather this and that or talk to allen or officers what to do with it and so. They dont care i suppose.
There are lot of issues to talk about pvp and so (only alex is on pvp and a little of me sometimes) and i think that this posts will continue.
My opinion is to start playing as a team together whenever we can casue the time difernace is a problem and try to help each other and pvp and at quests and to level.
And a last thing i am a mage i see online a defender and a priest but not togehter we are appart even if we speak in guild chat!!!! that was an example. WHY???Or we all wana team up with ALLEN??? That cant happened i suppose

At the moment this i have to say sorry if i said somthing and someone thinks that i am refering to him/her
Angels will rule .........and so priets!!!!!!

George Arcontas
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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Wed May 27, 2009 5:42 am

I'm glad I was told about the forum. See you can't know these thing unless you're told... I'm also not a big time gamer and this is the only game I play, so I sometimes get confused about abbreviations and things that need to be done. Like that guildhouse, what exactly do we still need?

I also have some etins and would be more than happy to give them to someone to help the guild. =)

I know I'm a newcomer, but that doesn't mean I can't be helpful...

If anyone needs anything, let me know, I'll see what I can do!

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PostSubject: Re: Guild as I see it   Wed May 27, 2009 8:24 am

Quote :

Like that guildhouse, what exactly do we still need?
We need Etin in order to have a guildhouse (as well as to be one of top30 guilds). Guildhouse offers a number of benefits, more you can read here: http://wiki.aeriagames.com/shaiya/index.php?title=Guild_House

If you dont know any abbrevation or something else, feel free to ask!

Quote :

I know I'm a newcomer, but that doesn't mean I can't be helpful...

Everybody can be helpful, as I said, even very low lvl toons can still get golden apples. We have many nice people like you who are helpfull and who wants to help but just don't know how. It's not the willingness to contribute we lack but organization. It's organization we need to improve. Some of us old members understand this and tries to change (thanks, Arcontas, for your opinion and suggestions!) instead of looking for excuses and searching who's to blame. So yes you definitely can be helpful and I hope together we will improve organization here so that you actually have a chance to be helpfull.
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